The Foundation of Being World-Ready: Why Human Skills Are Built, Not Born

What skills will define the future?

Leadership, empathy, adaptability, and resilience are high on the list for today's young people. 

To mark World Youth Skills Day, Martin Houghton-Brown, Secretary General of the International Award Foundation, sits down with us for a special podcast episode hosted by our Global Advocacy Manager Mariana Roa, to share how the Duke of Edinburgh's International Award creates opportunities for young people to develop these foundational #HumanSkills.

For 70 years, the Award has provided safe, supportive environments where young people gain real-life experiences, take on responsibility, learn from challenges, and celebrate achievement—building the confidence and capabilities they'll carry throughout life.

Today, these skills matter more than ever. As AI reshapes the world of work, while increasing digital interaction changes the way we build relationships, investing in human skills alongside formal education has never been more important.

Follow this link to learn more about Human Skills and The Award: Human Skills - Intaward

Hosted by Oksana Dobrovolska, Communications Officer at The Duke of Edinburgh's International Award Foundation

Stay in touch with us on Facebook | Instagram | LinkedIn 

Find us on Spotify, Amazon Music and Apple Podcasts

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Hello, everyone, and welcome to another episode of Beyond the Award. Today I'll be your host, Mariana Roa, Global Advocacy Manager at the Duke of Edinburgh International Award Foundation. And I have the pleasure to be joined today by our CEO and Secretary General, Martin Houghton Brown. Martin, it's great to have you with us.

SPEAKER_00 0:18

Hi, Mariana.

SPEAKER_01 0:19

Today we're going to talk about a very hot topic, and that is human skills. A topic that Martin is very passionate about. So I'm very happy he's here with us today to discuss it, and really talk about what it means to be world-ready nowadays for everyone, but particularly for young people, and how is it that we can achieve it? So before we go into that, we're going to have a short lightning round. That is quick questions and quick answers. So that your audience gets to know you a bit better, Martin.

SPEAKER_00 0:45

Sounds good to me.

SPEAKER_01 0:47

What is one piece of career advice you have completely ignored?

SPEAKER_00 0:51

Well, I can I start with the one piece of advice I ignored on my first ever Duke of Edinburgh's award journey where you have to carry stuff. And everyone said, don't carry too much. And okay, it's only short when you do bronze. The journey is, you know, not too many miles and it's just one overnight. But nevertheless, my shoulders were burning from the weight. And in some respects, it's kind of something that I took me a long time to learn. Um, and in fact, I'm about to go on a trip to um Hong Kong and China and uh uh Cambodia, and uh I know I'm going to pack too much. So I'm not sure I've even learned the lesson of don't carry too much.

SPEAKER_01 1:38

The importance of travel light. Uh I also struggle with it.

SPEAKER_00 1:43

I'm glad to hear.

SPEAKER_01 1:44

Um, what was the first job you ever got paid for?

SPEAKER_00 1:47

Oh, I was a hotel night porter. Um, and my brother, who is younger than me, got me the job. And um he was a waiter and he was very well thought of. I'm not sure I was very well thought of, partially because staying awake all night long, whilst you're sort of cleaning the fireplaces, polishing people's shoes overnight, and serving drinks and coffees. Um, but I learned a lot about humanity serving people uh in the middle of the night. They're not always the people that they were in the in the daytime. So yeah, it was a growing up experience.

SPEAKER_01 2:19

Very humbling. How old were you?

SPEAKER_00 2:21

Uh I was 16.

SPEAKER_01 2:22

Oh, yes. Well, it's important to learn the value of money.

SPEAKER_00 2:26

Uh yeah, true, absolutely, yeah. And um uh I didn't really um uh I was into collecting animals, so all of my money went on. I had a sort of menagerie of pets. Um so it was all about oh, could I could I afford uh another animal for my menagerie?

SPEAKER_01 2:44

I loved how you worked for it.

SPEAKER_00 2:46

I did, I did. It was my first passion was looking after animals and thinking about the world and thinking about how people need to care for animals. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:54

So you earned your gold award when you were 24. Uh give us a quick snapshot of what is it that you did for each section.

SPEAKER_00 3:01

The truth of it is I earned my gold award from about the age of 18 to 24. It took a very long time. Actually, I think I probably completed it when I was about 22, but then it takes quite a long time to go to the palace. Um so um I think there was probably a year's gap before we got to the palace. But anyway, um I you know, I think for me, um I you know, I was invited to do things that I hadn't really thought about doing. So um I sort of saw myself a bit of a an indoor type person, and they were asking me to be more of an outdoor type person. I thought, oh, I don't really like getting cold and wet, and I don't really like uh rugby or football. I and of course, in the awards, you've got to do the outdoor expedition, you've got to learn a sport. So I think I began to discover that actually sometimes there's fun in places you didn't realise there could be fun, and I began to learn to enjoy things that I thought I might not enjoy. So it sort of stretched me to do things in a way that perhaps I wouldn't have done if I'd been left to my own devices.

SPEAKER_01 4:04

So, how did you do a specifically for your volunteering section and your physical activity and your skill section?

SPEAKER_00 4:10

Uh so I was an air cadet and I had um an uh uh opportunity there to kind of teach younger cadets. So I taught younger cadets about um uh the principles of flight because we were air cadets, so I learned that and I taught that. Um and then uh I uh for my physical activity um I uh learnt canoe, um, so I became a kayaker. Um and um for my um uh sort of uh uh um skill uh I learned something very, very particular. So in the military, there's this thing called drill where you learn to march and salute and kind of turn on the spot and things, and ceremonial drill um uh was something that I just got quite fascinated with. I still quite like ceremony, uh so I quite like gold award ceremonies for that very reason. Um uh and uh so yeah, it was it was it was brilliant. Um I they they were all things that I had a little bit of an interest in. Um and uh uh kayaking just seemed to me to be like a quite a clever idea because if the river was running in the right direction, you had to put less effort in.

SPEAKER_01 5:22

Absolutely. So throughout, you know, there's various experiences to be had. What would you say is the number one thing you realized you were capable of that you did not know before?

SPEAKER_00 5:33

So I um was not naturally very coordinated. I wasn't one of those people that when you threw a ball, you could catch. I was more one of those people that sort of missed the ball as it came in. And that made me slightly frightened of balls, so I kind of avoided ball games. Um but I also then thought, oh, I'm not very coordinated. Um, but it turns out that actually through kayaking, you do need a bit of coordination because you to steer a kayak to stay balanced, to be able to recover from a capsize and things, you've got to be you've got to put in some coordination. And so, although I'd been told, oh, you're not very sporty, you're not very coordinated, that's not who you are, Martin. Actually, by trying these things in the award, I found that I was capable. It might take me extra effort, it might be a bit harder for me to get coordinated. And actually, one of the ways in which that's really benefited me was that one of my dreams was that one day I'd be able to fly. And um, but being a pilot requires quite a lot of coordination because you've got multiple controls, you're in four dimensions, and you know, so um I have learnt to fly, and it's the greatest joy that I have uh learnt how to fly an aeroplane. Um, it is quite coordinated. I still find it really hard. I think I'm probably not one of the best pilots in the sky, but like everything in the award, it's kind of taught me to stretch myself and the feeling of exhilaration. Still, uh, when I land the airplane, I get out of the airplane, I've sort of got an adrenaline rush. I feel great. Uh so there's something about learning that okay, I might not naturally be coordinated, but actually I can push myself a bit, do things that aren't necessarily comfortable, and they still give you a great reward.

SPEAKER_01 7:16

And it can unlock some other passions of yours.

SPEAKER_00 7:19

Completely, completely. I think I thought, oh, I couldn't possibly do that, I'm not that kind of person. Uh and of course, uh doing something that you you have a little dream of but you think you're not very good at, and then you discover actually you can do it, um, is a wonderful feeling.

SPEAKER_01 7:33

Right. And I think something that really stuck with me now that you were talking is as you suddenly discover you were capable of doing something. And it is, you know, that change, that mental shift and self-belief that I believe is also at the heart of we're developing here with those sort of human skills. So this is an interesting term, human skills. Like how do you describe it or how are you explaining to someone who has never heard it before?

SPEAKER_00 7:58

So I I mean, there are one one of the things I I just put into context here is that you talk to um educators or governments or employers right now, they're all talking about digital skills. So it's digital skills, there's gone this digital skills training program, the internet's full of opportunities to learn digital skills, uh and which is great and fantastic. Uh, but I was wondering, well, what is it that the award teaches? Because uh, you know, although you can learn a digital skill as one of your skills, that's not kind of what we're doing. What was it that was happening to me when I was going through the award? And I think I was learning some things about myself and about what it is to be human. Um and so at the heart of it is I think when we're going through life, one of the things we all want to find out for ourselves is do I have any choices? Do I have any like way of working in life that means that I get to make some decisions? I call that agency, that sense of I have the agency to choose. I can make choices in my life, and those choices will have an implication. They'll have an implication about how I experience the world around me, how I uh respond to some of the challenges I'm almost inevitably going to face. I think agency is a really important part of um being a human. But I also think that you begin to test and stretch uh new ways of working, discovering new skills, building uh sort of very practical capabilities. Uh, and I think that for all of us, when we discover we're capable at something, it's a brilliant moment in time. You say, Oh, I didn't know I could do that. Actually, by practicing it, I can do it and I can get better at it. Uh, and I'm not a tennis player, but I know that when you really learn how to serve, it's a great feeling. It's like, oh, I I can get that ball into the opposite side in the right part of the court that means I could score a point. It feels great. So building capability, I think, is a is a really important part of being human, that we we grow as human beings as we build our capability. But the final bit is something that's not always very obvious, but I think it is really important part of being human, and that's the contribution we make into the world around us. That whether it's the people that we love or the community that we're living in or our friends, um, or even the people that we don't like very much, but we've got to interact with anyway, we make a contribution into their lives. You you might think you don't, but you do. Whenever you're in someone else's presence, you're making a contribution into their lives. And I think understanding that that contribution makes a difference, that it can build people's lives, it can build your community, it can create difference. And I think of it as a sort of triangle of agency, of capability, and of contribution, where um if you grow your agency, grow your capability and grow your contribution, I think that means that you are able to do more with your life. You know, uh life is comparatively short in the history of the universe, you know, our 70 to 100 years or whatever it might be is it's not very long. So why not do something with that life? And I think growing that agency capability and contribution enables you to do more with your life. It enables you, if you like, to be world-ready.

SPEAKER_01 11:26

Absolutely. And I think you keep using this verb growing and building. It is actually something that just like digital skills, just like cognitive skills, it's learnable, we can build of it. How do you say that human skills said in relation to this other skill? So you usually talk about it like in hierarchy, uh, this three-story building analogy.

SPEAKER_00 11:49

Yeah, so I I think if you think about the kind of things that human skills do for you, they help you to solve problems, they help you to lead, they help you to be in a team, uh, they help you to be resilient, they help you to keep going when things are difficult and challenging. I think those are the elements that enable us to do other things. So if you like, they're foundational. If you think about our lives and say, well, actually, I'm never gonna learn anything if I've got no resilience. If I if I give up the first time I find something challenging, I'm never really gonna grow. Um if if I don't know how to interact with other people, I'm never going to get a job because no one will employ me if I don't get on with other people. Um, you know, if I don't uh actually learn how to problem solve, I don't understand how to do that, how do I fix that? You'll you'll you'll really get stuck very quickly in life. So I think that's those human skills are very foundational. Uh and I think when you when you've got those skills, they're actually also the foundations of learning. How do we as human beings learn um how to problem solve in a kind of critical thinking way? How do we learn a language? How do we build what I think of as you know cognitive skills, where you're kind of it's a bit more brain power based, it's a bit right, I'm going to have to. What does what does history teach us? What does geography teach us? What does science teach us? I think to really get good, for example, at science, you've got to be curious. To be really good at science, you've you've got to be able to figure out how to solve problems. So I think human skills are foundational, cognitive skills, the kind of technical skills, if you like, sit on top of that as at the kind of first floor level. And then you can start building really specialist skills like digital skills, like learning about AI, on top of that. So I've got this foundation of uh intellectual capability, kind of being able to use my brain well into that. I can slot some really specialist skills like digital and AI. So I see it as a kind of three-story building, foundation of human skills, uh, a first floor of cognitive skills, and then this kind of second floor of technical and uh specialist skills.

SPEAKER_01 13:53

Absolutely. And I think something that you mentioned before was that a lot of this curiosity is also behind the motivation that you have to do something that in my head also relates a bit with agency and you're saying before, because it gives you this freedom to go out and about and do something, and that finding a bit of a sense of purpose and what is it that you want to do. Um but one common trap that uh exists, and we spoke about it in the last episode with our leaders, is people think that someone can just naturally be born with certain skills. They are confident, they're resilient, they are great at public speakers, they're inspirational leaders, and some are just not. Uh, what's your opinion about it?

SPEAKER_00 14:33

Well, let me let me tell you about someone I met. Um, so uh I I met this wonderful woman called Emerald, and um she uh has built an extraordinary community of learning in Nigeria, and she's been going all out to create opportunities for young women uh to uh develop digital skills actually, um to become uh machine learning experts in their own right. She herself is is uh uh a machine learning scientist, and she has this phenomenal network of women across Nigeria who she's creating opportunities for them to learn and develop. It's very, very impressive. Um, but when I spoke to um Emerald about look, you're a very impressive human being, it goes without saying she has the awards, right? So um uh but I said, you know, like you must have been like one of these child geniuses. You kind of you you woke up one day and said, Ah, I know I'm going to be brilliant at machine learning, let me just get in there. And um I think that uh, well, she was she was very modest, but nevertheless she said, No, actually, that's not what happened. What happened was that um the award and a couple of other opportunities that were like the award taught her that she um could have an opinion. Not all of the cultural settings she was in uh was her voice being listened to. She learnt that if she really wanted something, she could go and get it for herself. And so she began to build this sense of agency herself as she was given opportunity to. So what the award did, what the kind of framework of the award did, was enabled her to experiment with what does it feel like to try something for the first time, to say, actually, I think I've got a preference here for doing this, I can I want to make a choice in my life. So she learned about her own agency, she learned how to build her own capability, she learned then that contributing to others through her volunteering could make a difference. So that built to the place where she is. And I I think what we've got to recognise is that uh the world is full of uh people who uh are actually fairly quiet and shy about the talent that's within them. It's full of people who don't yet realise what they could do, and um so uh you need environments in which you can help people to come out of that sort of I don't think I can to a I think I can space. And you do that by creating spaces for people to develop their skills. So I I would argue that human skills, yes, there's some kind of latent opportunities that happen in families and so on, but actually, and perhaps more so than ever, we need specific environments, intentional environments, where young people get the opportunity to uh develop those skills. It's like a muscle. The more you use it, the more it grows. And uh I think Emerald's a really good example of someone who began to experiment in that space through the award and built so much capability that she's now doing marvellous and wonderful things. But I I think it's I think it's it it is absolutely about that human skills can grow if you create the environments in which they're stretched, they're tested, they're developed.

SPEAKER_01 17:59

Absolutely, and I think it's a lot about having access to those environments and people gaining that ownership that this is something that they can do getting out there, getting out of their comfort zone. What is it something in particular that you say are characteristics of this spaces and this environment? How do they look like?

SPEAKER_00 18:19

So it's got to be real. You've got to be really real. Uh this is not uh an academic classroom exercise. In fact, I'd argue that it could be in the curriculum, but it should be outside of the classroom. This is stuff that you learn when you're not sat behind a desk and writing or or or sat behind a screen and learning that way. I I think this is something you learn in real life situations. So you've got to give people real responsibility. Uh you've got to allow people to fail, actually. You know, so one of the things that the award does is it helps people to go on this adventurous journey, you know, you go on an expedition. And um one of the things that happens nearly always, particularly in your first ever expedition, is you go the wrong way. So you, you know, we try to encourage people not to take a GPS. We want them to use a map and a compass, which is like prehistoric, right? But here's this little kind of wiggly needle that's pointing to north, and here's this map uh that's got symbols that represent mountains. Oh wow. And you've got to make that kind of all right, that's north, and that's the way the map is, and I think that forest is over there. Anyway, you get it wrong, and the consequence of getting wrong is you have to go back to where you were to say, right, if I got that wrong, I'm gonna have to go back to where I was, and now I'm gonna have to go the opposite direction. And that um kind of real responsibility, if you like, that that consequence helps you to learn, but also um I think you learn and grow these skills when you're in relationship with other people. And one of the things that youth work does, um work that develops young people through creating these opportunities for human skills development, is it builds really great relationships. So sometimes it's a relationship between a youth worker or a teacher or a mentor and the young person. Often it's relationships between young people themselves. Um, and so you know, if you are um learning to kayak, one of the things that um one of the first things you do is um you learn to capsize, so you're underwater, which is obviously not conducive to life. So um they teach you to bang the top of your canoe and you rub your hands up and down like this. So you've got to not panic, right? Being underwater, um, and uh you rub your hands and uh one of your friends comes along with their canoe until their canoe, you can feel the edge of it on your canoe, and you're oh and then you take your hands and you push on their canoe to pull your canoe back up round so you can breathe again.

SPEAKER_01 20:50

Real teamwork.

SPEAKER_00 20:51

Real teamwork, kind of life-saving teamwork, right? So uh you don't want that to take too long. You want your friend to paddle over there really quickly. But actually, you know, that's real risk, it's real responsibility, it's real relationship because you are grateful to your friend. And thanks so much, I'm so glad you came over quickly. And you might say, I'm gonna go under don't be long, right? Um so I think that's that that kind of context of creating um real opportunities for young people that have material consequences uh enables them to grow those skills. And the more they do that, the more they develop those human skills and the more ready they are to learn their cognitive skills, their technical skills.

SPEAKER_01 21:33

Absolutely. I think building those relationships, as you said, is crucial, having that peer-to-peer learning, um, but creating also safe spaces for people to be themselves to create a sense of belonging, also makes them to come back and and find themselves. And we can actually going back to the spaces you were describing, we can find increasingly more data about these spaces really boosting um these human skills. For instance, the Scouting So World Association had uh released a report saying that among many other skills, uh scouting really boosts teamwork and problem solving, and that links directly to later civic participation. But something that I found really interesting is the demand. I think like young people want to acquire these human skills. We've seen um surveys by Deloitte and Millennium Survey 2025, their later one released uh last month, 2026. They really show that young people believe that these human skills are more critical than ever. Particularly, they highlight leadership, they highlight empathy to understand each other, and adaptability was the core skill highlighted in 2026. The ability to for be resilient amidst change. And something that also came in this report was a sense of purpose. I think this generation is really putting an increased highlight on the need to for meaningful work, having a sense of purpose while working, which A, they need to find. How do we make sure they find that? Because that is also intrinsically linked to motivation, which is also great for employers, having a motivator employee works better.

SPEAKER_00 23:11

Yeah, so I I agree with all of that. And I I think we are seeing, in many respects, a b uh a bit of an uprising from young people in reaction to AI. So that kind of perceived risk around employment, and I think a materialized risk in lots of environments where uh jobs are not uh uh there anymore or being replaced by AI, particularly entry-level jobs. You know, young people have to start somewhere. We don't all start as a CEO, we don't all start as a kind of uh an advocacy manager. You we we start somewhere. Uh and I think also uh young people are really reflecting on the crisis in mental health that so many of them have come across as a result of the domination of social media in their relationships, the social isolation and the social anxiety that many researchers have pointed to and saying there's something happening here with the way that we interact online that is not conducive to a happy, healthy soul. Um, and of I know of instances where university students have booed people coming from digital and technology environments to speak because they're like, boo, we don't, you know, we want people who are going to tell us about real life. Now, the uh there is a saying um that uh if you leave a stable door open, the horse has already bolted. It's already left, it's pointless in saying, oh, shut the stable door. With AI, the door the horse has bolted, it's gone. You can shut the stable door, but it's too late. We've got a world in which AI is now going to be a fundamental part of society. And so we could be miserable about AI all we want, but that's not going to solve anything. I I I would argue that we've got to put our minds to, well, actually, uh in this world, uh, what is it that works to make a difference, to build human capacity, to build human capability. Uh uh, and uh what we've seen in um uh nearly 200 years of organized youth work is that whether it's the scouts or the YMCA or you know, more recently, we're just 70 years old as the award, uh, the award or guides or the YWCA, um, is that all of the research shows that it these activities, these spaces in which young people are exposed to human skills development uh activities, builds empathy, it it builds a sense of community, it builds um uh more positive and resilient mental health, uh, it builds a more active civic contribution. And so if all of these sort of uh research indicators are saying all of these activities are really positively contributing to a young person's well-being, why on earth isn't every government on earth investing heavily in making those things part of society?

SPEAKER_01 26:22

Absolutely, absolutely. And and we're gonna get there in a moment. But something you uh you said also struck me with just like the reflection, you know, the importance of giving also those spaces for young people to reflect on what is it that they're doing, where is it that they're going, what is it how what they want to do? Um and there's been like some misconceptions um about is it human skills against technical or against formal education. Um wanna clear that up.

SPEAKER_00 26:51

So this is not a competition. This isn't a kind of Cesaw in which um you know human skills is one side, technical skills are on the other. Oh, if you know, technical skills are too far this way, we need to, you know. It's human skills are foundational. So this is part of the same construction. Actually, we're building a world in which you need the critical thinking skills that enable you to learn, to learn from history, to learn from your environment around you. Of course, you need that kind of the scientific inquiry that helps us to be able to move the dial on medicine, for example. But we are absolutely going to have to get to grips with AI being, you know, uh exceptionally capable and increasingly capable, um, not flawlessly, but you know, increasingly capable. But our human skills are the foundation. So this isn't a competition, and I I think we've got to be really careful not to pose it as an either-or. I think we've got to say, no, uh, this helps us with the other parts of our world. This helps us to be better at interacting with the other parts of our world. Employers need technically competent people, uh cognitively competent people, but they also need people who are resilient and good at teamwork and great at working out problems, finding solutions.

SPEAKER_01 28:14

It's all about having this holistic location.

SPEAKER_00 28:16

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:17

So given this complementarity, how do you think programs like the word um really fit alongside school, school curriculum?

SPEAKER_00 28:26

So curriculum is an interesting uh word because curriculum uh is really the kind of if you like it's the timetable. You know, that's what it looks like for most young people. They go to school, they look at their timetable. I know that on Wednesday at 4 p.m. where I've got double maths, oh no, right? You know, they're kind of I mean, I assume some people are like, oh yes, but it wasn't me. Um so uh the curriculum manifests as a timetable, it manifests as time and space in which you learn specific things. And of course, your timetable should have double maths, sorry. Um it should have double English, right? And um, it should have double science, it should have all of those spaces where you're learning those things. But I argue that in your timetable, in your schedule across your week, this is what it looks like for a young person at least, you should also have activity outside the classroom, activity that helps you to learn and grow. So I think schools can help with that, because I think schools can timetable space to develop human skills, to say, right, where in our curriculum are we building these opportunities for young people to have that real responsibility, to have those real relationships that are beyond anything a screen can offer, beyond anything that a book can offer, but not necessarily beyond what a teacher can offer. Because teachers are so often the brokers of human skills development. So much of what a teacher does, you can tell I started as a teacher, um, so much of what a teacher does is um helps a young person to mend a broken relationship, helps a young person to try something for the first time. They're really doing human skills development in the midst of the books and the screens and all of that. Exactly. So I'd argue that the I, you know, some people call it co-curricular. Um I just think it's in the curriculum, but it's outside the classroom.

SPEAKER_01 30:21

It is about being really intentional about it. And how do we put it and how do we embed it?

SPEAKER_00 30:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:26

And there is indeed like increased consensus about the need to have this complementarity, and international organizations have published a lot of reports about it, going from the World Economic Forum, the International Labor Organization, the World Bank, the OECD. It's clearly part of the UN Sustainable Development Goals, SDG4, quality education. They all mention always the need for leadership, Brazilian, these capabilities that are critical for a future economy, just as a technical literacyist. The World Bank even calls it the skills of the 21st century. But and we're coming here to something you said earlier. Why is it that their people are not investing on it? Why is policy and funding fragmented on this?

SPEAKER_00 31:09

Right. It's I mean, it it it drives me really, really mad. I can't make me quite cross. Because um, these great institutions, these are institutions that employers, economists are looking at, they're listening to, and they are all consistent. They're all saying, right, when we look at the 21st century, when we look at what young people need to be ready for in the workplace, here are the skills they need. And they are not talking about the technical skills they are over and it's not that they're undermining them, they're saying those are important too, but they are saying, what are the fresh skills you need? They are talking about human skills, and they're using so many different terms and frames. It's it's almost funny because you think, how can all of you brilliant, genius people, come up with so many different ways of talking about it? And I've heard them all core skills, life skills, metacognitive skills, socio-emotional skills, um, and of course, my absolute favorite that so many people talk about soft skills. And I remember having a conversation with a brilliant academic, actually, great, great person, and he he said to me, I think soft skills is the right term, Martin, because um if you think about silk, silk is very strong, but it's very soft. You know, look, I think that's great, but if you have to explain something with an analogy, it's probably not great. And I think the problem with soft skills is if you say to a parent, would you like your children to spend some time in their school day learning soft skills? Most parents are going, oh, no, I wouldn't. I'd like them to do the hard stuff, please, because that's our nature. We want our children to kind of grow up doing the hard stuff. But soft learning human skills is not soft, it's actually some of the hardest stuff we've got to learn in life, and so uh all these organizations are saying the right things, but they're not coalescing around language, and of course, wherever you get consensus, wherever you get agreement, that is where the money goes. And so I think what's happened is that we've sort of got this almost wishy-washy, you know, very soft, very difficult to kind of hang on to set of languages around human skills. So I'm arguing we should all agree one terminology and say, together we are going to speak about how important these human skills are for young people's development and let's call them human skills. The digital skills has got its kind of teeth into all of our psyches. So let's use human skills as the other thing that's just as important, just as important as digital skills. Let's get everyone talking about human skills. So, my campaign, if you like, is to say to all of these organizations, let's call them human skills. Let's just agree on a language that will then get people thinking in the same terms and then investing in the same kinds of frameworks that help young people to develop in that way.

SPEAKER_01 34:17

Yes, because as you said, language really is important. It shapes what we recognize, it shapes what we invest in. Um what are like, you know, you're talking about different stakeholders. What do you think would change if everyone going from states, going from civil society, going to uh private sector starts using cohesively the same language?

SPEAKER_00 34:41

So for good reasons, um we are all globally agreed that numeracy and literacy are fundamental to cognitive development, that if you can't read and you can't use basic maths, you are going to be inhibited from your own uh progression in society. You know, we we've all agreed that. Uh and the consequence is that there isn't a government on this planet that doesn't have an education policy, that doesn't have a policy about how they are going to try and improve literacy and numeracy. In uh countries where education is free for all and uh there is maximum take up, they're talking about how they improve what they call their PISA scores, their scores for literacy and numeracy and other elements of academics. In countries where uh access to education is really challenging and where perhaps as many as 80% of the uh youth population don't have access to education, they are still talking about how do we get young people to access literacy, how do we get them to access numeracy and the learning around that? So they've got a policy even if they aren't achieving it. But we don't have common policies on human skills development. Uh and uh so I think there's something about trying to create almost a central place where we talk about it, where we say together, um, what does this translate? The uh sustainable development goals for the United Nations are about to be redeveloped. They're saying, right, we've got to recalibrate for the next generation of um ambitions for the world. What do those look like? Well, I would argue that in the midst of that, we've got to be really responsive to what young people are telling us about the challenges of living in a digital world, the challenges in a world that is also facing more conflict than we've known for a generation. And and of course, I think that when you build young people into a place where they are able to recognize that teamwork helps, you're more likely to resolve conflict, both at the micro level and at the macro level. So I think we need a place uh where we can begin to bring policy together, where we can begin to discuss what is the kind of international policy on human skills development, and what would it be like for every government to consider within our educational outlook the non-formal education and learning environments that would be conducive to growing human skills?

SPEAKER_01 37:12

Exactly, because as you say, these are skills that people want to learn, and that there's been a lot of uh evidence about the need for those skills. Um I think exactly if this convening of different parties is the driving force behind some of the aims of the foundation, one of the biggest ones would would be the global human skills forum. Can you quickly woke us through it and what is it that you're hoping to get out of it?

SPEAKER_00 37:37

So I've just had this idea really that that you know forums are places where people come together. They come together to create great ideas, you know, and if you go back into history, the kind of the the Roman forums were places where the kind of great ideation took place, where the senators would would debate to create uh great ideas. And we know that you know much of the science that came out of the Roman Empire, whether it was baths or roads, or you know, I grew up uh on a road that was um 300 miles long and you know called the Fosway in in Britain, and it was built by the Romans uh you know 2,000 years ago. Uh uh, but those ideas came about as when they came together to think together. And I think we should bring together civil society, the youth development organizations, the great organizations that were working in civil society, like the International Federation of the Red Cross and Red Crescent, and and youth organizations, educators, alongside government leaders, uh education ministers, policy development people who think about education, alongside industry, the employers, the people who want great uh young people to come into their workplaces, and importantly, I think alongside digital uh leaders who are saying we are creating AI in all of its shapes and forms. It is uh the horse is gone, it's going to, it's going, it's going and going and going. But we should bring them in and say, actually, you want young people to interact with AI really well and capably, responsibly, ethically. I've got this theory that thinking about this foundation of human skills of the foundation and then cognitive and then technical, I think that digital skills uh amplify what's beneath them. So actually, if you're fundamentally lonely, putting you online does not make you less lonely. I think it makes you more lonely. If you're angry and you go online, I think it makes you more angry, right? I I just see this over and over again. So I think there's a real and I I I I do think that many of the people who are leading the digital world want to amplify the good in the world. They see the potential for digital to help amplify the good. But you've got to invest in the good. And I think investing in these great dimensions of human skills development is exactly where we need to start. So I think a forum is about bringing people together from those different spaces to talk about what does the research need to look like? What does the policy development look need to look like? What does the resourcing need to look like to enable every young person to have access to an opportunity to develop their human skills?

SPEAKER_01 40:19

Absolutely, one place to bring everyone together, including young people, to discuss about how it looks like and have a stronger presentation around the table. So we're coming uh slowly towards the end of this episode. So, Martin, what is it that you would say is one takeaway and one immediate action that you would like our listeners to undertake today?

SPEAKER_00 40:41

So uh one of the takeaways I think is um if you can um uh think human skills first, think about using the term human skills when you would have said soft skills, when you would have said life skills, when you would have said core skills, use human skills and help us build a movement around human skills where you are bumping into people who are using the phrase human skills. You're on the human skills bandwagon too. Brilliant, that's great. Help each other to be part of that kind of let's get that language dominating and the way that digital skills is now dominant. Let's you know, it isn't the fight back, it's about ensuring that we've got that foundation set right. So, so use your language to reinforce thinking.

SPEAKER_01 41:25

It's a shared responsibility.

SPEAKER_00 41:26

It really is, it completely is. Um, I think that the second thing is that we all have a voice in one way, shape, or form. And I would really like it if people advocated in their country, in their school, in their youth work, um, uh, you know, with the people who make influence, with parents, to say, where can I get access to human skills development? Is that about an opportunity to compete uh one of the Duke of Edinburgh's awards? Is it is it um uh about an opportunity to join the guides? Uh, you know, what is it that um might might really help? What in our school could our school do to create more time and space, to get us outdoors, to get us into the world around us, to get us volunteering in our community, to to support perhaps someone who doesn't have what I've got? Um so I I I think that's really important. And then and then I think thirdly, um, if you can, if you've got access to people of influence, to people of resources, people who think big, say to them, have you thought about investing in uh the new Global Human Skills Forum? Uh have you thought about how you could use your international or national influence, your your networks or your resources to be part of this? Because it sounds really exciting and it's probably going to help us shape a better world.

SPEAKER_01 42:53

Tell them to come and chat with us.

SPEAKER_00 42:55

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 42:56

Oh so last question. Martin, I always have the pressure, the pleasure of talking to you and saying agency is important. It's important for young people to be on their driving seat of their lives, not as a passenger. So, what would you say? What situation or who put you in the driving seat of your life?

SPEAKER_00 43:17

You know, uh, I am so grateful to people who let me take some risks. And um, and it wasn't really any one person, it was uh a group of people who were actually all in youth work. Um, so I attended the church youth group, I attended the Air Cadets, and I had a teacher, a great teacher, um uh who was my religious studies teacher, and all of those people um gave me an opportunity. Um my religious studies teacher let me start a little school business to sell t-shirts because he thought I'd learn the responsibility about enterprise. And um uh and and my my church uh uh pastor let me um lead a group of younger people um uh and um uh help teach them um uh songs for church and and and and things like that. And then in the air cadets, I got given the opportunity to lead a group of young people on an expedition, um, uh obviously going the wrong way to begin with. Um and all of those opportunities were opportunities where um uh somehow someone put some trust in me uh and I developed. And I still feel it's a real privilege to be Secretary General of the Duke of Edinburgh's International Award is um uh an immense privilege. But I still wake up in the morning and think, gosh, have they trusted me to do this?

SPEAKER_01 44:46

Thank you, Martin. It's been such an honor to have you with us today. And I think one thing has become clear the defining question of our decade is not whether young people can use artificial intelligence, but whether they will develop the human skills to interact with it. It is technology what is gonna shape what is possible, but it is human skills what is gonna determine what it's done. Correct. Thank you so much for your time, Martin. And I'll see all of you in your our next episode. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 45:16

Thanks, Mariana.